Editing Forum:Creature Template Update (section)

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 | Text = I have created a possible new look for the [[Creature Template]]. It is based upon the cleaner looking [[NPC Template]]. You can view it here: [[User:An Adventurer/Sandbox 3]]

Notes:
* I have kept all the variables from the current {{tl|Creature}} wiki template, in order for it to be compatible with all creatures currently using the template.
* I have moved Trophies, Weaknesses, Common Attacks, Melee Defense, Melee Attack, Missile Defense, Missile Attack, Magic Defense, & Magic Attack from within the "Assessment Panel" area to the side, where the TOC was displayed on the NPC template.
* the notes section has not changed at all.

My idea is that, if possible, the information on the side for attack/defense skills will only be displayed if there is information entered into the template.  If no defense or attack skills are listed (which is pretty common), none of those bullet points will be displayed.

If however, no information is entered for the ''Weaknesses'', ''Attacks'', or ''Trophies'' variables, I think it would be more useful for "Unknown" to be displayed. If one wants to specifically state that a creature has no weaknesses or trophies, "None" will have to be entered.

Thoughts?

--[[User:An Adventurer|An Adventurer]] 18:48, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
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 | Text = I know you've mentioned previously that your browser is full screen on a wide screen display. A fair number of people, including myself, have AC open in a window and the browser open to the side. The third panel isn't visible at all at that size unfortunately (or for people on a 15" display or many laptops).

Also I think the spaces are a nice prompt for the info, indicating it needs to be added still.--{{User:Tlosk/SigR}} 01:15, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
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 | Text = I initially wanted to move the trophies, weaknesses, attacks/defenses, etc into the notes section, but I was not sure if that would be possible to have the {{tl|Creature}} template place its variables in the notes section, without that section being a part of the template. And I wanted to avoid having all creatures having two notes sections if possible. 

What are your thoughts on changing the template at all? The creature template has more or less stayed the same since page templates were created. I feel it would look better to have it more closely resemble the in game appraisal panel, just like what we have done for items and NPCs.

--[[User:An Adventurer|An Adventurer]] 01:41, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
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 | Text = Unfortunately neither is possible, the content of a template can't span more than a single section.

Part of the reason for updating the NPC template was frequently there wasn't much information which caused a large gap when put alongside the image and showing the stats allowed getting rid of the gap.

I suppose part of the problem is that there's a lot of info that isn't readily visible with an ID panel that's still important.--{{User:Tlosk/SigR}} 14:28, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
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 | Text = I see. I have altered the new look example in my sandbox once more. Let me know if you think this style could work. [[User:An Adventurer/Sandbox 3]] --[[User:An Adventurer|An Adventurer]] 15:24, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
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 | Text = That looks really good, I'll get a mockup in [[Template:Sandbox]] later today and the we can test it with a few pages and see if it needs any more tweaks.--{{User:Tlosk/SigR}} 16:33, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
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 | Text = There were some tricky bits but I have a working example now in [[Template:Sandbox]] with three usage examples at [[User:Tlosk/Test]]. Because of the implicit tree arrangement I moved all the attack values underneath common attacks and the three defensive values underneath weaknesses.

I removed the beveled border so the lower panel better integrates with the block and added a subtemplate {{tl|Creature Trophy List}} that can handle displaying icons. Plain text or plain links can continue to be used in the trophy parameter which avoids breaking anything currently in use.

Try it out with a couple creatures (remember to use Sandbox instead of Creature for the template) and see if anything can be improved. --{{User:Tlosk/SigR}} 15:34, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
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 | Text = They look good. Some observations:
* I made the tables below the stats/pic section 620px wide because of the beveled border. Now with the bevel removed the table is wider than the stats and image. It is especially noticable on the Obsidian Golem.
* The border color on the boxes is pretty light with no bevel border. I think it should be changed to match the color of the border on the into box.
* I think it looks good without the bevel, but we should probably update the NPC template to the same style.

--[[User:An Adventurer|An Adventurer]] 22:13, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
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 | Text = The borders have been darkened. I'd reduced the width some, but it was still off 2 or 3 pixels, it lines up correctly now when using a standard size image (300x400) however the size renders differently when the image has to be resized. This is parser engine behavior which we don't have direct control over. I might be able to workaround by using nested tables, I'll try some things out. --{{User:Tlosk/SigR}} 23:30, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
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 | Text = Looks better with the darker border. I hate to suggest this since it adds another level of templates, but perhaps we should make general ACCW Table style template, like how we have a {{tl|Creature Stat Table Format}} template. There are a LOT of our templates with tables that use a single style (border color, width, and bg color), but now this creature template uses a new one. I think it would make sense for all the ''light grey, outlined in darker grey'' tables to use the same shades, and it would certainly be a time saver if we had a single template that controlled that. What do you think? --[[User:An Adventurer|An Adventurer]] 00:29, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
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 | Text = I added a {{tl|format}} template that can store as many specific formats as we use (instead of a template for each format, you just pass the name as the parameter). That'll make it easier, to have them all in one place, if you can't remember the name of the one you want to use. --{{User:Tlosk/SigR}} 20:10, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
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 | Text = The nesting worked and the panels square up consistently now regardless of the image used. Well at least for Firefox anyways, I'm looking into IE (along with some other issues with the most recent version of IE 8 that aren't rendering right on other parts of the site) and I hope to get workarounds for them soon.

Also because the structure is more rigid, a vertical layout option is no longer available. Templates currently set to vertical will still display ok, just with a smaller image to the right. --{{User:Tlosk/SigR}} 19:31, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
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