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{{Exemplar ToC|Forum}}
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{{Related|Special:Recentchanges{{!}}Recent Changes|Template:Post}}
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<font color=darkgreen><b>NOTE: This is the location of our old Forum and this page has been locked. All content has been moved to our new threads based [[Forum:General|Forum]]. Please go there to make new posts.</b></font>


The Forum is a central location for discussions that would be of general interest to other [[Related Links|contributors]]. This also includes putting a link here to very specific discussions that are carried out on the talk pages of articles. The general idea is having one place to check for recent contributor discussions. The wiki is growing and there are now many contributors helping cover more topics than ever. The forum should help avoid missing reading and participating in discussions about standards and practices as the wiki continues to evolve.  
The Forum is a central location for discussions that would be of general interest to other [[Related Links|contributors]]. This also includes putting a link here to very specific discussions that are carried out on the talk pages of articles. The general idea is having one place to check for recent contributor discussions. The wiki is growing and there are now many contributors helping cover more topics than ever. The forum should help avoid missing reading and participating in discussions about standards and practices as the wiki continues to evolve.  
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== October 2009 ==
== March 2009 ==
=== Skins & home page design ===
=== Reference Footnotes ===
{{Post
| Indent = :
| To = Tlosk
| Text = Hey, I have a request for a wiki template. I'd like a simple template that I can use for the footnotes I made for lore articles. I just added my initial footnotes to the [[Timeline of Auberean]] I'm working on, and it was a +3,123 edit. I am using the following code to make footnotes (You'll have to edit to see it):
<sup>[[{{PAGENAME}}#References|<nowiki>[</nowiki>1<nowiki>]</nowiki>]]</sup>
I'd like to just have something simple like:
<nowiki>{{Footnote|1}}</nowiki> or <nowiki>{{FN|1}}</nowiki> or <nowiki>{{Ref|1}}</nowiki>
Do you think you could put this together? --[[User:An Adventurer|An Adventurer]] 13:48, 6 March 2009 (CST)
}}
{{Post
| Indent = ::
| To = An Adventurer
| Text = You can now use wikipedia style footnotes by enclosing the link or reference in ref tags, then placing <nowiki><references/></nowiki> where you want the footnotes to appear. Clicking on any footnote number will automatically take you to that reference and highlight it. Numbering is automatic so inserting additional footnotes will automatically renumber any existing footnotes given the order they appear on the page. If a footnote is referenced more than once, add a name parameter the first time it's used (for example <nowiki><ref name=loot>[[Loot]]</ref></nowiki>), then each time you use it again use <nowiki><ref name=loot/></nowiki>. All such uses will link to the same footnote number, and the footnote itself will link back to all uses (names have to be a single word with no spaces).
 
For example:
<pre>
...Deru Trees.<ref name=Knight>2008/08 [[Ancient Powers]] - [[The Blessed Trees]]</ref>
...sun and stars.<ref>1999/11 [[Release]] - [[The Advocate Towers]]</ref>
...across the world.<ref>2008/08 [[Ancient Powers]] - [[The Blessed Trees]]</ref>
...Deru Trees.<ref name=Knight/>
 
----
 
<references/>
</pre>
 
will display as:
 
The Falatacot diverge into two branches: the Dark Falatacot, dealing in the power of undeath and corruption in service to the Old Ones; and the Light Falatacot, working to protect what they consider to be worshipful spirits - the Deru Trees.<ref name=Knight>2008/08 [[Ancient Powers]] - [[Knight Test]]</ref>
 
Primordial gods struggle with evil shadow creatures. After a long contest that exhausted their powers, the gods banish the shadows into the earth by creating the sun and stars.<ref>1999/11 [[Release]] - [[The Advocate Towers]]</ref> 
 
The [[Deru Tree]]s are created by the Light and they drive the Living Dark below, allowing life to spread across the world.<ref>2008/08 [[Ancient Powers]] - [[The Blessed Trees]]</ref>
 
The Falatacot diverge into two branches: the Dark Falatacot, dealing in the power of undeath and corruption in service to the Old Ones; and the Light Falatacot, working to protect what they consider to be worshipful spirits - the Deru Trees.<ref name=Knight/>
 
----
 
<references/>
}}
=== Home Page Redesign ===
{{Post
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  | To =  
  | To =  
  | Text = I think that [[ACC Wiki Home]] could use a redesign. I think it would be nice to have it laid out more like other wikis, like [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page the wikipedia main page]. What I am referring to are the sections wikipedia has labeled "Today's featured article", "Did you know...", "In the news" and such. Having our AC news and Wiki news tucked away as links on the side bar makes them less noticeable, and I admit I don't even update them much, but I probably would if they displayed on the front page.
  | Text = With the move to Wikia there are several Monaco skin colors along with the Monobook skin. I've done some editing to the [[MediaWiki:Monaco-toolbox]] and [[MediaWiki:Monaco-sidebar]] (may need to clear history and refresh to see them). With these changes, the Monaco skin has pretty much all the same links, menus, and tools that were previously found on asheron.info's sidebar and drop down menu. This will hopefully help make the site easier for those not signed in, as Monaco is the default.
 
<br><br>On the topic of skins - is it possible to change the default to Monobook, so the site would look more familiar to those not logged in? And if it is possible, do we want even want to make this change, or should we embrace and expand on the Monaco skin?
One other thought I had. With the wiki software we have, are drop down menus possible? Like the ones on [http://www.wowwiki.com/Portal:Main WoWWiki] or the [http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Lorebook_home LotRO Lorebook]?
<br><br>A related topic - the home page. I think that we should consider a serious overhaul of the layout. The major changes I would like to see would be to move AC News & Wiki News to somewhere on the homepage, where they would get much more attention. I'd also consider merging the two into 'news'. I also think we could make some major revisions to the whole topic section, especially since the monaco sidebar menu can cover much of it.
<br><br>At the very least, the welcome and Getting Started sections should probably be edited or rewritten. And I think we could try changing the style of the boxes - from their current rounded edges to something more resembling our recent template changes.


--[[User:An Adventurer|An Adventurer]] 14:50, 16 March 2009 (CDT)
--[[User:An Adventurer|An Adventurer]] 17:37, September 25, 2009 (UTC)
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}}
{{Post
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  | Text = I'm worried they would compete with navigational aspects. Ideally you can reach any content in the wiki in 3-4 clicks from the main page and the size of our wiki makes it possible (unlike Wikipedia where there's so much content that it's assumed people will just use the search box to get where they want to go) so more of the main page can be devoted to interest grabbing material.
| To =
 
  | Text = Nice work with the menus on the sidebars.--{{User:Tlosk/SigR}} 22:47, September 30, 2009 (UTC)
It's possible to do drop down menus yes, they can be integrated into skins I know, and I assume something could also be done with the default monobook, I'll try to get something working. --[[User:Tlosk|Tlosk]] 17:28, 16 March 2009 (CDT)
}}
}}
{{Post
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| Text = I have a drop down navigation menu working now, it works on IE7+ and FF. If you want to tweak the menu items or add new sections, edit the [[MediaWiki:Sitenotice]] and the linked templates. For new sections a new template must be created (just a bulleted list, see the templates used list at the bottom when editing Sitenotice for examples). --[[User:Tlosk|Tlosk]] 13:01, 17 March 2009 (CDT)
}}
{{Post
| Indent = ::::
| Text = Nice work. One thing I have noticed - the page title does not display correctly with the drop down menu on some pages. It is only pages with short names or a short word at the the beginning of its name, like Forum and ACC Wiki Home. The short word is being placed right of the menu, and then continues where the title is supposed to be. This is only happening on higher resolutions/wider windows. It does not occur on my laptop (1440x900), but does on my desktop (1680x1050). Both are using Firefox, laptop is running Mac OS X, desktop is running Windows XP. --[[User:An Adventurer|An Adventurer]] 13:11, 17 March 2009 (CDT)
}}
=== Weapon & Armor Collection categories/templates ===
{{Post
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| Text = I would like to propose we create 2 new categories & templates called "Weapon Collection" and "Armor Collection" to classify "groups" of related weapons & armor. This would be used to A.) group similar weapons/armor together, like we have already done in many places, and B.) to group together various sets/upgrades that, while they may various quests, are related to one another.
Examples of possible [[Weapon Collection]]s:
*: [[Atlan Weapons]]
*: [[Isparian Weapons]] => [[Shadowfire Weapons]], [[Weeping Weapons]]
*: [[Living Weapons]] => [[Palenqual's Living Weapons]], [[Renegade Living Weapons]]
*: [[Runed Weapons]] => [[Princely Runed Weapons]], [[Royal Runed Weapons]]
*: [[Red Rune Silveran Weapons]]
*: [[Singularity Weapons]] => [[Singularity Weapons]], [[Bound Singularity Weapons]], [[Ultimate Singularity Weapons]]
*: [[Spectral Weapons]]
etc...
Examples of possible [[Armor Collection]]s:
*: [[Shadow Armor]] =>  Regular Shadow Armor, Prismatic Shadow Armor, Sharded Shadow Armor, etc...
*: [[Noble Armor]] =>  Contains Empowered Noble Armor (or whatever it will be called).
*: [[Relic Armor]] => Contains Noble Relic, Ancient Relic, Relic Alduressa
*: [[Hieromancer's Armor]] => Thaurugmatic Plate, Exarch Plate, Auroric Exarch Armor
Just throwing it out there.  Since we already have several "groups" of weapons that are currently classified incorrectly as "Weapon", it might be a good way to properly classify this stuff.  What do you guys think? --[[User:Atarax|Atarax]] 00:58, 12 March 2009 (CDT)
}}
{{Post
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| Text = Since there aren't a ton of them I might suggest having a "Collection" category and add it to the list pages (and keep the weapon, armor etc). But I'd be fine either way. Your call. --[[User:Tlosk|Tlosk]] 06:01, 12 March 2009 (CDT)
}}
{{Post
| Indent = :::
| To = Tlosk
| Text = Well, I thought more about it last night, and I think afterall, it would be good to keep each group of weapons/armor separate, like [[Princely Runed Weapons]] vs [[Royal Runed Weapons]].  Then in the template, just have "related articles", which link to the others.  I still think having a more specific category called "Weapon Collection" would be more appropriate than listing it under Weapon & Collection, since its not a weapon, its just a group of weapons. What do you think? --[[User:Atarax|Atarax]] 10:38, 12 March 2009 (CDT)
}}
{{Post
| Indent = :::
| To =
| Text = I agree that a general collection would be better than specific weapon and armor. First, Tlosk is right - there are not many sets out there. Second, there are some possible collections that could contain both weapons and armor, and even jewelry. For example, the various renegade tumerok and lugian weapons, armor, clothes, and jewelry could be listed on a "Renegade Equipment" page. All the olthoi armor and weapons could be on another page. --[[User:An Adventurer|An Adventurer]] 14:14, 13 March 2009 (CDT)
}}
{{Post
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  | To =  
  | To =  
  | Text = Honestly, I do not think we need to have many collection pages. For the most part, collections or sets come from the same quest, and all the items belonging to that set would be listed on the quest page anyway. I'm not saying we don't need collection pages at all, just that they should only be used when the entire set cannot be found on a single quest guide already. --[[User:An Adventurer|An Adventurer]] 14:14, 13 March 2009 (CDT)
  | Text = See: [[User:An Adventurer/Sandbox]] for a more clear example of my idea for updating the home page.
}}
{{Post
| Indent = :::
| To = An Adventurer
| Text = I see your point.  Lets take Weeping Weapons for an example, where would you propose that these be listed, if not on their own page? --[[User:Atarax|Atarax]] 15:28, 13 March 2009 (CDT)
}}
{{Post
| Indent = ::::
| To = Atarax
| Text = Weeping Weapons would be listed on the [[Heart of Innocence (Quest)]] item listing. Elemental Weeping Weapons would be listed where they already are, on the [[Elemental Weeping Weapons]] guide item listing. The heart of Innocence would have [[Isparian Weapons (Quest)]] and [[Elemental Weeping Weapons]] listed as related quests.


Isparian Weapons would have the following quests listed as related: [[Shadowfire Stone (Quest)]], [[Heart of Innocence (Quest)]], [[Major Atlan Stones]], [[Major Prismatic Stone (Quest)]]. --[[User:An Adventurer|An Adventurer]] 16:01, 13 March 2009 (CDT)
--[[User:An Adventurer|An Adventurer]] 18:02, September 25, 2009 (UTC)
}}
}}
{{Post
| Indent = :::::
| To = An Adventurer
| Text = Fair enough, I like that Idea.  I'll start purging those "collection pages" and redirecting them to the quest that yields them. --[[User:Atarax|Atarax]] 18:26, 13 March 2009 (CDT)
}}
=== Spell Table ===
{{Post
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  | Text = I've created an archive of files generated from the spell table of the client_portal.dat file. It contains information for the last six patches. Each patch has two files.  The first has most of the data about each spell, including its name, description, icon, components, school, duration, caster effect, target effect, and target mask.  A few of the fields don't seem to have much meaning, such as range/level, dura2, and the one labeled "2*lev". The other file shows the groups of spells that stack, with each spell sorted by difficulty within the group (the number on the left). This is useful for finding bugs with spell stacking.
| To =
 
  | Text = I have added some more detail to my sandbox linked above. It's not by any means a final design though. I have designed this with the thought that by default, visitors will be in the new monaco skin and will thus be using the sidebar, which I added a lot to. And hopefully we can get the drop-down menu added back to the monobook skin, and that drop down menu can mirror the links and levels of the monaco sidebar menu.
* [http://homepage.mac.com/nygard/ac/ac-spells-2009-03.zip ac-spells-2009-03.zip]
<br><br>I'd like to hear some people's thoughts on the proposed design. I greatly reduced the number of main topics displayed. Are there any topics I removed that you think absolutely need to be there? Are there any topics that were never listed but you thought should be there?
<br><br>I left out links to current/previous/all patches from topics for now, mostly because I couldn't think of good icons to use. I think that there should definitely be a link to the current patch on the main page, but I am not sure we need the previous and all patches links there with them already contained on the sidebar menu.
<br><br>I included [[Game Mechanics]] as a topic. My thought is that this page could be greatly expanded on, and that the current [[General Information]] page would be merged into it.
<br><br>I left out the [[Leveling Guide]] link as a main topic, but I figured that it would be linked to on [[New Player Guide]], [[Returning Player Guide]], [[Game Mechanics]], and [[Level Costs]], all of which are linked to on the main page, so it didn't need it's own link.
<br><br>I also cut out the whole welcome/getting started sections. I placed a short welcome blurb at the top with links to other pages, as seen on many wikis such as wikipedia. I figured that we could go into more detail on the [[Asheron's Call Community Wiki:Introduction]] page and if necessary, create a [[Getting Started]] page. And we could add more general information about the wiki at [[Asheron's Call Community Wiki:About]].


You can compare the files to see what has changed in each patch.  For this patch, I've summarized some of the changes on [[Talk:Who Watches the Virindi?]].  --[[User:Widgeon|Widgeon]] 02:31, 12 March 2009 (CDT)
--[[User:An Adventurer|An Adventurer]] 21:50, September 27, 2009 (UTC)
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  | Text = Awesome, thanks, that will be a huge help. --[[User:Tlosk|Tlosk]] 06:03, 12 March 2009 (CDT)
  | Text = Lot of great stuff there, I can't reply in detail yet but I wanted to make a quick post to comment on a few things. The dynamicpagelists are extremely resource intensive and so we won't be able to use them (it's possible to use them in a limited fashion, but it's not
really worth it). It isn't possible to set monobook as the default, though I did specify the color scheme default so at least people won't have the dark scheme when they first come to the site. Also I'd suggest making a long term mockup that we can work on and improve over a few weeks and leave the main page as is until most people have made the transition and signed in at least once. We can put a link on the main page though to the mockup to invite broader feedback and suggestions. The issue with the drop downs in monobook is an extension that's installed that messes up the formatting, I have a request in to remove it so anytime now I should be able to turn that back on (although it's still a little borked in IE, I need to figure out how to fix that also).--{{User:Tlosk/SigR}} 00:59, September 30, 2009 (UTC)
}}
}}
== Feb 2009 ==
=== AC:DM CD lore documents classification ===
{{Post
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  | Text = The AC:DM cd included several lore articles in the form of word documents. I want to add them to the lore section, but I'd like some input on how to classify them. There are two categories I am considering using: Internet Lore Article & Printed Material. They don't really belong in either category though. And there are only 12 of them, so I don't think they deserve a new category.
  | Text = I've put together a page at [[Asheron's Call Community Wiki]] --[[User:An Adventurer|An Adventurer]] 19:10, October 7, 2009 (UTC)
 
I was thinking printed materials because, while not printed, they were included as extras with the AC:DM product, similar to the manuals that I tagged as printed materials. I was thinking internet lore article because, while perhaps never appearing on the web, they fit in with the style of the internet lore articles, and if someone was looking for them without remembering their source was the CD, they might check the internet lore articles.
 
So what do you think? Tag them as printed, internet, both, neither?
 
--[[User:An Adventurer|An Adventurer]] 13:51, 24 February 2009 (CST)
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{{Post
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  | Text = Since they came on the CD, it classify them as printed. Hey, you have to print a CD ;) --[[User:Atarax|Atarax]] 13:55, 24 February 2009 (CST)
  | Text = I have gone ahead an modified the main page.
}}


=== Mediawiki 1.14 Released ===
* I have left the topics the same until there is some discussion on them.
{{Post
| Indent = :
| Text = The 1.14 version was released on Sunday, I'm currently testing the upgrade on a test machine and in the next week I'll be upgrading the wiki. This will be a significant move as we are currently running version 1.10 (May 2007). Some preparation can be done ahead of time, however during the final backup and upgrade the wiki will be placed into a read only mode to avoid database conflicts, I'll give at least a 2 day warning before this happens. Help pages will be changed to reflect the changes once the upgrade is complete. Some special pages will appear different and quite a few new options will be available. --[[User:Tlosk|Tlosk]] 10:13, 23 February 2009 (CST)


Here are the [http://svn.wikimedia.org/svnroot/mediawiki/tags/REL1_11_2/phase3/RELEASE-NOTES 1.11], [http://svn.wikimedia.org/svnroot/mediawiki/tags/REL1_12_4/phase3/RELEASE-NOTES 1.12], [http://svn.wikimedia.org/svnroot/mediawiki/tags/REL1_13_5/phase3/RELEASE-NOTES 1.13], and [http://svn.wikimedia.org/svnroot/mediawiki/tags/REL1_14_0/phase3/RELEASE-NOTES 1.14] changes that will likely be meaningful to our specific wiki:


'''Images:'''
* The whole welcome/getting started section was removed. It was mostly out of date, and hadn't really been modified since the wiki was created. The relevant info was moved to [[Asheron's Call Community Wiki:Introduction]].  
:* The '''Image''' namespace has been subsumed by the '''File''' namespace, while '''<nowiki>[[Image:Name.jpg]]</nowiki>''' will still work, the standard is now '''<nowiki>[[File:Name.jpg]]</nowiki>''' to display an inline image. '''<nowiki>[[Media:Name.jpg]]</nowiki>''' will still create a text link directly to the image and '''<nowiki>[[:File:Name.jpg]]</nowiki>''' will link to the image description page.
:* A new tag allows a single image to link to many pages instead of just a single page as was previously the case with a redirect on the image's description page. Add the parameter '''link=page name''' where the image is used. The image will act as a hypertext link to the specified page. The page name must not be enclosed in square brackets, and it is always interpreted as an internal link. For example, <nowiki>[[File:Pyreal Mote Icon.png|link=Atlan Weapons]]</nowiki> would link to [[Atlan Weapons]] when the image is clicked. In most cases we will continue using redirects to avoid having to duplicate the link each time the image is used.
:* Setting a caption for an image will display the caption explicitly if the image uses a '''frame''' and will display a popup caption if the mouse hovers over the image even if there is no frame. Now this popup can differ from the caption by adding the parameter '''alt=alt text'''. For example, <nowiki>[[File:Image.jpg|frame|alt=Asheron|Asheron in his tower on the island off the coast of Eastham.]]</nowiki> would display the full caption, but display "Asheron" if hovered.
:* The <nowiki><gallery></nowiki> tag accepts image names without an Image: prefix (just give name and caption).
:* New file cache for the parser that improves page rendering time on pages with several uses of the same image.
:* Image moving is now enabled for sysops by default.
:* Image redirects are now cached (nonlogged in users will view the normal page cache instead of forcing a page rendering).
:* A warning is shown when hash identical files exist.
:* Better proportional view of upright images related to landscape images on a page without nailing the width of upright images to a fixed value.
:* New 'border' and 'frameless' keywords added to the [[Image:]] syntax.
:* Removed hardcoded minimum image name length of three characters.
:* Allow HTML attributes on <nowiki><gallery></nowiki>.


'''New Syntax:'''
:* <nowiki>{{PAGESINCATEGORY:Category Name}} - For example {{PAGESINCATEGORY:Creature}} would display as 1,824.</nowiki>
:* Able to make arbitrary rows of sortable tables sticky (stick to top of table, not sort):  '''<nowiki>|- class="unsortable"</nowiki>'''
:* Added magic word <nowiki>__STATICREDIRECT__</nowiki> to suppress the redirect fixer.
:* Added magic word <nowiki>__HIDDENCAT__</nowiki>, when placed on a category page causes the category to be hidden on article pages.
:* New <nowiki>PAGESIZE</nowiki> parser function that returns the size of a page.


'''Search:'''
* There is now a news section on the main page. I will work more to streamline our whole news section. The old links in the monobook skin sidebar should be removed, but I don't know how to edit that part.
:* "Did you mean" search feature made more noticeable.
:* Drop-down AJAX search suggestions added.
:* More relevant search snippets are highlighted.
:* Drop-down selection of major search engines (Google, Yahoo, Windows Live, etc).


'''Special Pages:'''
--[[User:An Adventurer|An Adventurer]] 16:44, October 13, 2009 (UTC)
:* The new page [[:Special:Log/newusers]] records new users to the wiki.
:* The new page [[:Special:LinkSearch]] displays a search for external links.
:* History pages now have a date selector that allows you to display history from a particular month.
:* [[Mediawiki:pagetitle-view-mainpage]] message page allows the HTML <title> of the main page to be customized.
:* [[:Special:User contributions]] now has year and month date selectors.
:* [[:Special:Statistics]] has many new features.
:* [[:Special:ListUsers]] displays edit counts.
:* [[MediaWiki:Uploadfooter]] now available for just [[:Special:Upload]].
:* Category pages now give an accurate total of items in the category instead of only a range to display.
:* [[:Special:FileDuplicateSearch]]
:* [[:Special:UserRights]] redesigned.
:* Inclusions, links, and redirects can be separately toggled on or off for [[:Special:WhatLinksHere]].
:* [[:Special:SpecialPages]] now organized into sections.
:* Image links are shown on [[:Special:Whatlinkshere]].
:* Search by first letters or digits in [[Special:Categories]] added.
:* [[:Special:Recentchangeslinked]] now has all options that are in [[:Special:Recentchanges]].
:* The search box, toolbox and languages box in the Monobook sidebar can now be moved around arbitrarily using special sections in [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]]: SEARCH, TOOLBOX and LANGUAGES.
:* Added a predefined list of delete reasons to the deletion form.
:* Add a predefined list of delete reasons to the file deletion form.
:* [[:Special:Upload]] now lists permitted/prohibited file extensions.
:* Use [[shared.css]] for all skins and [[oldshared.css]] in place of [[common.css]] for pre-Monobook skins.  As always, modifications should go in-wiki to [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] and [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css.]]
:* [[:Special:Uncategorizedtemplates]]


'''Miscellaneous:'''
:* Configurable per-namespace and per-page notices for the edit form.
:* Search matches are now bold only, not red as well.
:* When a page doesn't exist, the tab will say "create", not "edit".
:* Users moving a page can now move all subpages automatically as well.
:* The User class now contains a public function called isActiveEditor. Figures out if a user is active based on at least $wgActiveUserEditCount number of edits in the last $wgActiveUserDays days.
:* Duplicate section anchors with differing case are now disambiguated.
:* White space differences not shown in diffs.
:* Add feed links for the site to all pages.
:* Allow bots to specify whether an edit should be marked as a bot edit, via the parameter 'bot'.
:* Allow HTML attributes on <nowiki><math></nowiki>.
:* Improved file history presentation.
:* Show edit count in user preferences.
}}
}}
{{Post
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  | Text = I've successfully upgraded a test server and will be doing a full backup early Saturday morning on the 14th. The wiki will be read-only during this period. This will give us several days to get the bulk of the content up for the new patch before then. After verifying the backup I hope to complete the upgrade of the site Sunday or Monday following. If you find any unexpected behavior or errors, contact me via email. Also the template revisions and swiss tool update will be done by then so once the upgrade is live I'll start aggressively updating existing articles with the new template formats using the new tools that will be available to us. --[[User:Tlosk|Tlosk]] 17:12, 9 March 2009 (CDT)
  | Text = Awesome work on everything, it looks great. I've been visiting some of the other wikis for ideas and am testing some things out but was trying to finish a map generator first and get some lingering issues from the move resolved. I was also thinking we could make a central hub for navigation where we basically link to almost everything so we can both expand on what is currently on the mainpage and also have a onestop place for people trying to find something (and also expose the nooks and crannies that can be difficult to find if you don't already know they exist). Also I will have a new wiki style forum set up in the next day or two and I'll backfill it with the existing content from here (I may possibly be able to restore our original forum content as well if I can get it running locally). --{{User:Tlosk/Sig}} 15:47, October 14, 2009 (UTC)
}}
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  | Text = Further testing revealed a few issues that I'm tracking down now, so it may be a few more days.
| To = Tlosk
  | Text = I have a suggestion for the central hub. The article [[Asheron's Call]]. Until I created the page for the home page updates, it didn't exist on the wiki. Right now it is just a stub, but I was thinking that it would be a great place to have links to lots of various content. Currently, [[Asheron's Call]] is linked to on the home page in the welcome statement, and it is on the monaco-sidebar with the alias Game Info (one of the first tier topics) so it will be easy to access. And it is probably the broadest topic article, since it can cover all things of AC1 and AC2. --[[User:An Adventurer|An Adventurer]] 18:19, October 14, 2009 (UTC)
}}
}}


=== Template Revision Progress ===
== September 2009 ==
=== Negative modifers ===
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  | Indent = :
  | Text =  
  | Text = Immortalbob pointed out that there are some weapons that have negative modifiers and they display as "+-10%" etc. I found a way to search for negative mods and found a few more bows and xbows that had a negative damage modifer and a bronze weapon with a negative melee mod. I decided to just add another parameter that would display its value and not format it at all. See [[Cragstone's Axe (Bronze Version)]] and [[Sublime Elari Wood Bow]] for examples. This won't be part of the standard page template as it would be confusing, rather I just wanted to let you know that it's available if needed.
'''General Issues:'''
* Updating all templates for next release of [[Wiki Swiss Tool]].
* Moving from format heavy page templates to variable based page templates (will aid data entry speed and provide flexibility in updating formatting in the future).
* Live images fixed to not overlap in small browser windows and not appear at all if no image specified.
* Move template links listed below up the chain as progress is made.


<blockquote>
So if you have a weapon that has a negative mod, delete the regular parameter/buffed parameter and replace it with the special one. The two parameters are "Defense" (instead of "Bonus to Defense") and "Modifer" (instead of "Damage Modifer"). And since there is no formatting applied, set it equal to however you want it to appear (including %, font color, bold, etc). --{{User:Tlosk/SigR}} 00:47, September 30, 2009 (UTC)
'''Revised and Reviewed:''' (final inclusion candidates)
:* [[Individual Creature Template]] - [[Talk:Individual Creature Template|Talk]] - Tlosk, An Adventurer, Atarax
:* [[Key Template]] - [[Talk:Key Template|Talk]] - Tlosk, An Adventurer, Atarax
:* [[Patch Announcements Template]] - [[Talk:Patch Announcements Template|Talk]] - Tlosk, An Adventurer, Atarax
:* [[Melee Weapon Stat Template]] - [[Talk:Melee Weapon Stat Template|Talk]] - Tlosk, An Adventurer, Atarax
:* [[Creature Entry Template]] - [[Talk:Creature Entry Template|Talk]] - Tlosk, An Adventurer, Atarax
:* [[Keyring Template]] - [[Talk:Keyring Template|Talk]] - Tlosk, Atarax, An Adventurer
:* [[Jewelry Template]] - [[Talk:Jewelry Template|Talk]] - Tlosk, Atarax, An Adventurer
:* [[Scroll Template]] - [[Talk:Scroll Template|Talk]] - Tlosk, Atarax, An Adventurer
:* [[Missile Weapon Stat Template]] - [[Talk:Missile Weapon Stat Template|Talk]] - Tlosk, An Adventurer, Atarax
:* [[Point of Interest Template]] - [[Talk:Point of Interest Template|Talk]] - Tlosk, An Adventurer, Atarax
:* [[Magic Caster Stat Template]] - [[Talk:Magic Caster Stat Template|Talk]] - Tlosk, An Adventurer, Atarax
:* [[Landblock Template]] - [[Talk:Landblock Template|Talk]] - Tlosk, Atarax, An Adventurer, Atarax
:* [[Armor Stat Template]] - [[Talk:Armor Stat Template|Talk]] - Tlosk, Atarax, An Adventurer (includes shield, clothing, robe, etc)
:* [[Standard Text Template]] - [[Talk:Standard Text Template|Talk]] - Tlosk, Atarax, An Adventurer
:* [[Individual Dungeon Template]] - [[Talk:Individual Dungeon Template|Talk]] - Tlosk, An Adventurer, Atarax
:* [[Translated Text Template ]] - [[Talk:Translated Text Template |Talk]] - Tlosk, An Adventurer, Atarax
:* [[Housing Settlement Template]] - [[Talk:Housing Settlement Template|Talk]] - Tlosk, An Adventurer, Atarax
:* [[Quest Guide Template]] - [[Talk:Quest Guide Template|Talk]] - Tlosk, An Adventurer, Atarax
:* [[Trophy Template ]] - [[Talk:Trophy Template |Talk]] - Tlosk, Atarax, An Adventurer
:* [[Housing Item Template]] - [[Talk:Housing Item Template|Talk]] - Tlosk, Atarax, An Adventurer (includes Portal Devices)
:* [[Healing Kit Template]] - [[Talk:Healing Kit Template|Talk]] - Tlosk, Atarax, An Adventurer
:* [[Potion Template ]] - [[Talk:Potion Template |Talk]] - Tlosk, Atarax, An Adventurer
 
'''Under Review:''' (Updated and needs improvement feedback, sign the end of each template once you have reviewed it and have no further suggestions.)
:* [[Gem Template]] - [[Talk:Gem Template|Talk]] - Tlosk, An Adventurer, Atarax
:* [[Portal Gem Template]] - [[Talk:Portal Gem Template|Talk]] - Tlosk, An Adventurer, Atarax
:* [[Vendor NPC Template]] - [[Talk:Vendor NPC Template|Talk]] - Tlosk, An Adventurer, Atarax
:* [[Crafter NPC Template]] - [[Talk:Crafter NPC Template|Talk]] - Tlosk, An Adventurer, ??
 
'''Under Revision:''' (Currently being updated.)
:* [[Portal Template]] - [[Talk:Portal Template|Talk]]
:* [[Quest NPC Template]] - [[Talk:Quest NPC Template|Talk]]
:* [[Food Template]] - [[Talk:Food Template|Talk]]
:* [[Cooking Template]] - [[Talk:Cooking Template|Talk]]
:* [[Crafting Template]] - [[Talk:Crafting Template|Talk]]
:* [[Object Template]] - [[Talk:Object Template|Talk]]
:* [[Item Stat Template]] - [[Talk:Object Template|Talk]]
 
'''Needs Revision:''' (Not currently being worked on.)
:* [[Town Page Template]] - [[Talk:Town Page Template|Talk]]
:* [[Geographic Area Template]] - [[Talk:Geographic Area Template|Talk]]
 
'''Needs Creation:''' (Does not exist in any form yet.)
:* [[Live Event Template]] - [[Talk:Live Event Template|Talk]]
</blockquote>
}}
{{Post
| Indent = ::
| Text = Instead of making a unique template for rares, I added an optional line to the [[Template:Intro|<nowiki>{{Intro}}</nowiki>]] template. Adding '''Rare Number = ''' makes a link displaying the rare number on the far right. For example, [[Mirrored Justice]].
 
I was able to construct the [[Armor Stat Template|Armor template]] so that it can handle all the different types of armor, so the clothing, robe, masks & guises, and shields have all been folded into a single template. --[[User:Tlosk|Tlosk]] 11:26, 19 February 2009 (CST)
}}
}}


=== 2nd Quest Template Revision Complete ===
=== Wikia Test Server Live ===
{{Post
{{Post
  | Indent = :
  | Indent = :
  | Text = I finished a first go at the various templates for the [[Quest Guide Template]] based on what you'd both come up with and posted the results on the [[Test Quest Page]]. The wikicode is at the bottom of the page. There's a special map links template now that links to the dungeon page and both the wiki and acmaps.com maps if extant, or another site if there's one. I abandoned my tile based mapping program development and am finishing automating as much as I can of a new workflow that produces a complete map in 10-15 minutes instead of several hours like it took before so it's going to be feasible to create our own maps for most dungeons. I'll start with unmapped dungeons then move to popular quest dungeons.
  | Text = The Wikia test server is now available at [http://asheron.wikia.com/wiki/ACC_Wiki_Home http://asheron.wikia.com/wiki/ACC_Wiki_Home]. Almost all extensions have been installed, however there are one or two that are still being worked on. This is a test installation meant to allow us examine what our wiki would be like on Wikia and to give us time to resolve any issues before a move takes place.


The experience and title table templates are flexible in the number of items and whether to include repeat info columns.  
You will not be able to login using your ACC Wiki account, however if you have a Wikia account or create one, you can login using that (if you create an account with the same name, use the same email address you use here to avoid any issues when merging).


As suggested below, I added a link bar that mimics the link bar for special pages like Image file pages. Any of the items can be turned off by erasing the True values in the template.  
You can change the skin used to our current skin by going to your preferences after logging in and under the Skins section select Monobook and uncheck "Let the admins override my skin choice".


After any initial feedback is incorporated we should probably use it on a few quest pages to see if anything unexpected turns up. --[[User:Tlosk|Tlosk]] 15:02, 15 February 2009 (CST)
Please spend some time testing things out this weekend and record your feedback here: [[Talk:Wikia Migration]]. Later today I will have general information about new ways of doing things and differences at [[Wikia Migration]]. --{{User:Tlosk/SigR}} 13:09, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
}}
{{Post
| Indent = ::
| Text = Can we have a small link to [[Level Costs]] at the bottom of the Quest Experience Table?  This would make it easier to figure out how much xp you'll get for levels below the xp cap. --[[User:Widgeon|Widgeon]] 00:43, 21 February 2009 (CST)
}}
{{Post
| Indent = :::
| Text = Sure, I added it in. --[[User:Tlosk|Tlosk]] 05:57, 21 February 2009 (CST)
}}
}}


=== Image Galleries ===
=== Returning Players ===
{{Post
{{Post
  | Indent = :
  | Indent = :
  | Text = For aesthetic reasons I changed the backgrounds of the gallery thumbnails from light gray to black for higher contrast. Also to adjust the thumbnail sizes both the widths and heights parameters need to be specified. See [[How To Use Images#Image Gallery]] for more info. --[[User:Tlosk|Tlosk]] 16:59, 14 February 2009 (CST)
| To =
}}
  | Text = With the upcoming 10th anniversary patch we will be seeing a lot of returning players. So I'd like to initiate a review of the pages most likely to be of use to these players and beef them up to be as complete as possible. I've listed below as many as  I can think of (add any others you can think of to the list, and over the next few weeks if you have some free time take a look at a few to see what you can add. --{{User:Tlosk/SigR}} 00:07, 6 September 2009 (UTC)


=== Show/Hide ability ===
* [[New Player Guide]]
{{Post
* [[Returning Player Guide]]
| Indent = :
* [[Plugins]]
| Text = I'd like to request the ability to create the show/hide function. Looking on wikipedia for examples, I was able to find two templates that we may be able to copy
* [[Story Arcs]]
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Hidden_begin
* [[XP Quests]] (Also you can go to [[:Special:MultiCategorySearch]] and search for Quest and Stub to find quests that need filling out.
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Hidden_end
* [[Leveling Guide]]
Looks like these will provide the ability to make show/hide areas.
* [[Housing Kit]]
 
* [[Armor]]
I would like this ability for the new quest guide template, currently being worked on in [[User:An Adventurer/Sandbox|An Adventurer's Sandbox]]. I was thinking the ability to hide/show the ''Quest Summary'', ''Rewards Summary'', and ''Related Articles'' would be nice - but the feature may also be useful on other pages such as patches.
* [[Weapons]]
--[[User:An Adventurer|An Adventurer]] 14:50, 12 February 2009 (CST)
* [[Mana Forge]]
}}
}}
{{Post
{{Post
  | Indent = ::
  | Indent = ::
  | Text = After an initial attempt I couldn't get it working, I need to track down all the dependencies and I may get it working, or it may have a dependency that is version related and it will have to wait for the upgrade.
| To =
 
  | Text = I started a topic already for the leveling guide, you can see it at [[Forum#Leveling Guides]], which links to [[Talk:Leveling Guide]]. Story arcs I can probably handle. The only issue there is that for each patch I have to look over all the quests, the TC rumors, and read the internet lore to make a good summary. And this takes some time. I've saved a bit of time by archiving [[Microsoft Zone Archive/Asheron's Lore/A Brief History for Travelers|A Brief History for Travelers]], but this is not a permanent solution.
It will integrate into the template itself so we can move ahead and it can be added when I get it working without having to change anything on the pages themselves. --[[User:Tlosk|Tlosk]] 16:51, 14 February 2009 (CST)
<br><br>I want to beef up some of the main lore areas like the cultural pages. I've started this with [[Yalain]], [[Falatacot]], and [[Sho]]. I also want to redesign the [[List of Texts]] page with a cleaner look and if possible, its own wiki table template like the ones for vendors and such. I've started work on this on [[User:An Adventurer/Sandbox 4]].
}}
}}
=== Kill Tasks Naming ===
{{Post
{{Post
  | Indent = :
  | Indent = ::
  | Text = Atarax and myself think we should come up with a new naming system for kill tasks. The current system is ''Hunter Quest (Creature Name)''. Some ideas:
| To =
# <Reward Title>, <Reward Title> Task, <Reward Title> Quest
  | Text = Two things to add to the list
#:Example: Arctic Mattekar Annihilator, Arctic Mattekar Annihilator Task, Arctic Mattekar Annihilator Quest
# A full list of /commands, with each command being its own page. We have the blank [[:Category:/command]] with 1 member. This should be populated.
#:*Pros: Searching for a title would direct you to the quest, each kill task has a unique title.
# A complete and much more detailed description of the user interface, probably with multiple pages. I imagine a sliced image with each image section redirecting to the correct description page.
#:*Cons: Some titles may not be very descriptive of the task, a small number of kill tasks have multiple titles
# <NPC Task Giver>'s Task
#:Example: Enzo Ilario's Task
#:*Pros: Would provide unique names for every task
#:*Cons: Not descriptive of task, a few NPCs give out multiple tasks (may not be an issue), some kill tasks may not have npcs (unsure).
# <Creature Name> Task, <Creature Name> Kill Task
#:Example: Arctic Mattekar Task, Arctic Mattekar Kill Task
#:*Pros: Identifies creature right in article name.
#:*Cons: Some tasks are for multiple creatures.


I don't think there is any naming system for kill tasks that will be able to cover all types of tasks, so we should just pick whichever one works best for most and is able to deal with the odd ones in an easy way. --[[User:An Adventurer|An Adventurer]] 14:50, 12 February 2009 (CST)
--[[User:An Adventurer|An Adventurer]] 22:27, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
}}
}}
{{Post
{{Post
  | Indent = :::
  | Indent = :::
  | Text = I'd vote for <Creature Name> Kill Task and for tasks with multiple creatures pick the most common creature for the full page and create pages for the other creatures that redirect to the full page. This would only be for cases where the various creatures all count towards the same goal. Where there are separate counts, like for the [[Hunter Quest (Cragstone Drudges)|Cragstone Drudges]] I think there should be a separate page for each creature even though they share the same NPC since the counts, timers and rewards are discrete. --[[User:Tlosk|Tlosk]] 16:45, 14 February 2009 (CST)
| To =
  | Text = That would be really good. Having individual images line up together to make a seamless whole image would be tricky though, it might be easier to use an image map, where you specify the clickable parts of a single image, I'll get it installed. --{{User:Tlosk/SigR}} 11:37, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
}}
}}
{{Post
{{Post
  | Indent = ::::
  | Indent = :::
  | Text = I added this to [[Naming Conventions]]. --[[User:Tlosk|Tlosk]] 16:45, 14 February 2009 (CST)
| To =
  | Text = I noticed that all of the YouTube video embeds are broken, this includes older content such as Turbine's BZ video, game intro, Alphus Lassel, etc etc. I'm assuming Wikia has a different format for embedding? Anyways, I plan on trying to compose an extensive list of non-grind ways of leveling your character, which I think will be a refreshing change to players who dread coming back to grind... as AC has done a great job in allowing players to level without camping dungeons now. Perhaps this could be a seperate section called "no grind" or something. I do think the current leveling guide could be better organized though it is a good start... I might brainstorm for that as well :). Oh, and as far as the sliced image deal goes, can't you just divide the image by "hot spots" and do it that way rather than splitting the image around?  <br>--[[User:ConnortheCraftmaster|Connor the Craftmaster]] 24 September 2009
}}
}}
=== "Introduced in" standard ===
{{Post
{{Post
  | Indent = :
  | Indent = ::
  | Text = I think we should make a standard for the "Introduced in" text that is displayed at the top of most pages. I think "'''Introduced in:''' <nowiki>[[??]]</nowiki>" used on creatures and possibly other page types should be phased out in favor of the "From the <nowiki>[[??]]</nowiki> quest introduced in the <nowiki>[[??]]</nowiki> event." standard used on items. Like items, if the creature is not from a quest, the first section is deleted and it just states "Introduced in the <nowiki>[[??]]</nowiki> event."
| To =
 
  | Text = I'm going to be working a lot on the User Interface and other basic help items. I've put together a spliced image of the UI here: [[User:An Adventurer/Sandbox]]
Which brings up a request for Tlosk or anyone else that knows about templates: Can we make a template for this, that is able to display either the quest + patch ''or'' just the patch? For example:
<pre>{{Intro|Frore|Sudden Season}}</pre>
Would display as:<br>From the [[Frore]] quest introduced in the [[Sudden Season]] event.
 
and
<pre>{{Intro|N/A|Sudden Season}}</pre>
Would display as:<br>Introduced in the [[Sudden Season]] event.


Would that be possible? --[[User:An Adventurer|An Adventurer]] 20:20, 1 February 2009 (CST)
--[[User:An Adventurer|An Adventurer]] 17:51, October 8, 2009 (UTC)
 
edit: I forgot about "updated in". Maybe the template would look more like
<pre>
{{Intro
| Quest =
| Patch =
| Update = Patch1, Patch2
}}
}}
</pre>


And perhaps it would be easier to create a template if it was displayed like this:
=== Wiki Relocation ===
:From: <nowiki>[[Quest]]</nowiki>. Introduced in: <nowiki>[[Patch]]</nowiki>. Updated in: <nowiki>[[Patch]]</nowiki>, <nowiki>[[Patch]]</nowiki>.
--[[User:An Adventurer|An Adventurer]] 20:36, 1 February 2009 (CST)
}}
{{Post
{{Post
  | Indent = ::
  | Indent =  
  | Text = I've gone through a couple iterations while I was working on the [[Key Template]] over the weekend. Currently what I'm using is a little awkward but works for everything (noun agreement and modifiers always break on something when used) but it is grammatical. I moved updates to the Notes section so that a description of what was done in the update can also be included. The format is <nowiki>"From {{{Quest}}} introduced in {{{Patch}}}."</nowiki>
| To =
  | Text = Unfortunately continued growth and bandwidth/overhead demands are requiring we move to a new host again. Most of the larger gaming wikis have faced this same transition point in their history where the costs to operate become prohibitive and they have moved to the professional wiki hosting site [http://www.wikia.com/wiki/Wikia Wikia.com]. Wikia was founded by [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Wales Jimmy Wales] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angela_Beesley_Starling Angela Beesley], Chairman Emeritus and Advisory Board chair respectively of the [http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Home Wikimedia Foundation] which is responsible for both [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page Wikipedia] and [http://www.mediawiki.org/ Mediawiki] (the wiki software that we use to run this site).


I will change the format for creatures to do what you suggested. So where the quest field is blank or left out completely it will use Introduced in ... but when a quest is specified, for things like boss creatures that are strongly associated with a particular quest, it will use From .... introduced in .... --[[User:Tlosk|Tlosk]] 06:50, 2 February 2009 (CST)
I will try to list as openly as I can the pros and cons of this move below and we will only reach a final decision once everyone has had an opportunity to weigh in, this wiki was made by players of Asheron's Call for the benefit of other players and our primary goal is to ensure the long term availability of the hard work and countless hours of the many [[Related Links|contributors]]. We recognize that the wiki's popularity rests firmly on how useful and broad the wiki has become because of their work.
}}
{{Post
| Indent = :::
| To = Tlosk
| Text = I like the idea that An Adventurer had, however it might be good to change the formatting a bit, since everything is introduced but not everything has a qu--[[User:An Adventurer|An Adventurer]] 12:58, 2 February 2009 (CST)est. For Example:
 
<pre>{{Intro|Sudden Season|Frore}}</pre>
Would display as:<br>From the [[Frore]] quest, introduced in the [[Sudden Season]] event.
 
And for items with no quest:
 
<pre>{{Intro|Sudden Season}}</pre>
Would display as:<br>Introduced in the [[Sudden Season]] event.


The other alternative is to ONLY list the introduction at the top, like '''Introduced in:''' [[Sudden Season]], and then underneath it, have a comma separated list of related quests like this example of the [[Empyrean Golem Stone]]:
{{{!}}cellpadding=6 style=background-color:#d5f0ff; border:1px solid #95daff;
!Pros
!Cons
{{!-}}valign=top
{{!}}style=width:50%;{{!}}
* Hosting would be provided free, meaning the longterm viability of the wiki would no longer be dependent on forces we may not be able to control. Time spent contributing to the wiki would not be in danger of being lost or unavailable.
* Editorial control will remain with us, we will continue to decide what the wiki will be and what it won't be.
* We would share the same host as the largest wikis for games like World of Warcraft, Guildwars, Diablo, Everquest II, Final Fantasy and nongame wikis like Lostpedia, Wookieepedia and others.
* Mediawiki software upgrades, weekly backups, outages, etc are all handled by a full time team of engineers employed by Wikia and we would no longer be dependent on one or two people that aren't always available.
* Wikia will not own the content, it will remain under the Creative Commons open license which means people are free to use submitted data on their own sites or build upon it as they see fit. Unlike other corporately owned fansites (as well as all private sites that I have personally contacted in the past) that severely restrict how information on their sites can be used, the wiki ethos is to make information as widely and as conveniently available as possible. Towards this end Wikia makes weekly data dumps that contain all the wiki's pages. This dump is readily downloadable. This was a goal we have always had ourselves but due to the complexity of remote administration and the size of the dumps it hasn't been practical for us to do. This also protects the data by allowing multiple copies across many people and locations, rather than in just one or two places as is now the case.
* Wikia engineers have created lots of widgets and templates that can be used to improve the site so players can focus on game content instead of spending that time on wiki plumbing.
* A lack of advertising is a common complaint by players that wish Turbine could devote more resources to game exposure. Because of our size we will benefit from visibility on Wikia which will mean Asheron's Call will gain visibility, which hopefully might get some players to return that otherwise wouldn't have.
* While Wikia will have ads, because of the increased costs of running the wiki ads would almost certainly be required going forward no matter what we do. However there would be no guarantee they would cover our costs and we would also require players to take time to administrate this. Wikia on the other hand would handle all aspects of this on our behalf.
{{!}}style=width:50%;{{!}}
* While the style/layout of the wiki as it currently exists can be maintained by adjusting personal preferences (using the monobook skin), it will not be the default skin. Users that do not change their skin preference or users that are not logged in will see pages that differ in appearance.
* Usernames are wikia wide, not just specific to our wiki, as a result there is the possibility some users won't be able to use the exact same name after the move.
* Ads will appear on most pages (the number of ads are reduced when logged in and on pages other than the main page). We will not have direct control over what ads appear, though there is a mechanism to report inappropriate ads.
* Players will not be the final arbiter of what material remains on the wiki. Wikia reserves the right to remove information for any reason. However the history of the other large gaming wikis shows that this has little to no real world impact.
* Wikia is a for profit entity, which means that if ad revenue is greater than the costs to host the wiki, those profits go to Wikia shareholders. Many popular services operate in the same way, like Google Search, Gmail, IGN, Warcry CoD, Hulu, Broadcast Television and Radio, etc. The ads allow the companies to offer services for free to the endusers.
* With the move to Wikia there is the potential for a fork (the creation of another wiki using the same base material but with each wiki then taking their own path with their own set of contributors). Technically this is possible already, however the potential increases if there are people that are unhappy with the move.
{{!}}}


<pre>{{Intro|Rekindling the Light|Crafting Golems, Diemos Flagging}}</pre>
Would display as<br>'''Introduced in:''' [[Rekindling the Light]].<br>'''Related Quests:''' [[Crafting Golems]], [[Diemos Flagging]].


Any of those options would work, however it would be nice if we had a template that was designed to hold multiple quests. --[[User:Atarax|Atarax]] 11:37, 2 February 2009 (CST)
We would like to allow time for any of our contributors or readers who might have concerns to be able to voice them now so they can be addressed to their satisfaction before a move is made. --{{User:Tlosk/SigR}} 23:56, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
}}
}}
{{Post
{{Post
  | Indent = ::::
  | Indent = :
  | To =  
  | To =  
  | Text = I think having each piece of info a separate line like this might actually be a better format. And since it isn't trying to form the information into a sentence, we don't have to worry about the (Quest) at the end of quest names. I think if we go with this, we should still include the "Updated In" section at the top - this is a useful tool for navigation. For example, say you are trying to find a quest, and you know it was added in the patch that Branith's staff was updated. You search branith's staff and right at the top is the patch link you are looking for. --[[User:An Adventurer|An Adventurer]] 12:58, 2 February 2009 (CST)
  | Text = We've been very fortunate to have our current free hosting (Thanks Mav!), but I don't think we're going to find a better solution than Wikia.  Wikia provides exactly what we need, and since they host other gaming wikis with much larger communities, we shouldn't have to worry about capacity.
}}
{{Post
  | Indent = :::::
| To = An Adventurer
| Text = My only concern is when quests are updated multiple times, which has happened a lot, especially recently with mana forge keys.  Its always nice to see what was changed/updated in addition to when it was updated.  This is why I propose that it be included in the notes setcion, or somewhere else on the page.  If we add it to the top, it would have to be duplicated below if we want to describe what was updated in each patch. Maybe something like this would be useful?


<pre>
I understand that advertising is necessary, but blinking, flashing, animated advertisements are so distracting that I either block them, or don't visit those sites anymore.  I see there is one such ad on the main page of the lotro wiki, though the other four ads aren't a problem.
{{Updated|Patch Name|Added a [[Mana Forge Key]] to the rewards.}}
{{Updated|Patch Name|Increased XP Reward}}
</pre>
 
Might show up as something like:
* Updated during [[Patch Name]]: Added a [[Mana Forge Key]] to the rewards.
* Updated during [[Patch Name]]: Increased XP Reward.


Just an idea... Any direction we take is fine by me. --[[User:Atarax|Atarax]] 13:19, 2 February 2009 (CST)
It's reassuring that they do make site content available for download -- so much effort has been put into the wiki already that I'd hate to see it lost.
}}
{{Post
| Indent = ::::::
| To = Atarax
| Text = Quest pages don't use the "introduced in" standard. They have intro and update patch info in the summary, with details of updates in the general section.


Items and creatures are rarely updated multiple times, and certainly not in any ways that require explanation in notes sections. For example, when an item is updated we don't need to explain what was changed, we will include post- and pre-patch stats on the page, like the [[Crystal Sword]]. As for monsters - for the most part, updates to monsters is not worth mentioning. Knowing that a creature had a new trophy added, or got updated stats, isn't really useful information since only the current version of a creature can still exist in the game. The only time I can think of when a creature update would be useful is for big changes to bosses, like the various changes that happened to aerbax.
I already have an account at Wikia. If we moved there, can my ACC Wiki account/username/contributions be merged/associated with my existing Wikia account?


If we do ever feel like including old stats of creatures (I have both the original and AC:DM strategy guides, I have lots of info on old stats), we could simply include them in a fashion similar to old stats of items - list them on the page, below notes. --[[User:An Adventurer|An Adventurer]] 13:34, 2 February 2009 (CST)
By the way, it might be worth starting a thread on the Turbine forums, to hear what people there think. --[[User:Widgeon|Widgeon]] 09:45, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
}}
}}
{{Post
{{Post
  | Indent = :::::::
  | Indent = ::
  | To = An Adventurer
  | To =  
  | Text = Sounds good to me. So it appears the answer is to have multiple lines. '''Introduced In:''', '''Updated In:''', and '''Related Quests:'''.  Would we ever possibly want to add Related Topics to this?  Should it be kept separate?  It wouldn't happen very often I would imagine. --[[User:Atarax|Atarax]] 13:52, 2 February 2009 (CST)
  | Text =  If there are two accounts with the same name, then email addresses are compared. If they match, that name is set as one account. If there are two accounts and the email addresses don't match, then a prefix would be added to the new (merging) account. If you have accounts of the same name on ACCWiki and on Wikia, make sure your email address is the same on both accounts. To do this, go to your preferences page, make sure the "email" field is correct, and authenticate your email by clicking the link in the email sent to you. If you have accounts of different names on ACCWiki and Wikia, and you would like them merged, there will be a talk page where you can request they be merged into a single account. (If the emails don't match and someone ends up with a prefixed name, it will be possible to merge them after the fact after verifying both accounts belong to the same person, or a name change to a nonprefixed, unique name if desired if you don't own the wikia account of the same name). --{{User:Tlosk/SigR}} 20:02, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
}}
}}
{{Post
{{Post
  | Indent = ::::::::
  | Indent = :::
  | To = Atarax, Tlosk
  | To =  
  | Text = I cannot see any instance where we would need to use the related topics template on an item or creature, and only rarely on NPCs. Related topics should be kept its own template, and always be displayed as the first line. For the intro template, I agree. The 3 line method looks like the best solution.
  | Text = Thanks, that answers my question. I've updated my email address, and that's all I should need to do. --[[User:Widgeon|Widgeon]] 22:27, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
 
As for the template itself. Tlosk has included the intro patch + quest as lines within the creature template and key template. I think that the intro template should be a separate wiki template - one that is placed at the top of Item, Creatuer, and NPC templates. This will make it easier to update if we decide to make changes, because we won't have to change the template code for npcs, creatures, armor, shields, jewelry, melee weapons, keys, and so on. There are a lot of page types that use the "introduced in" line, it would be much better to have it its own template. --[[User:An Adventurer|An Adventurer]] 14:05, 2 February 2009 (CST)
}}
}}
{{Post
{{Post
  | Indent = :::::::::
  | Indent = :
  | To = Atarax, An Adventurer
  | To =  
  | Text = I mocked up some options, see what you think: [[Sandbox Two]]. --[[User:Tlosk|Tlosk]] 16:54, 2 February 2009 (CST)
  | Text = I'd never thought of the fact that wikia advertises their other wikis. That is a real nice benefit. However, on the point about user names- if names are universal, that means anyone from any wikia wiki can edit any other wiki? That sounds like it has the potential for harassment. Has this ever been an issue? Also, you said we remain in editorial control. Do we still keep the ability to ban/block bad users, or is that something wikia does? --[[User:An Adventurer|An Adventurer]] 16:19, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
}}
}}
{{Post
{{Post
  | Indent = ::::::::::
  | Indent = ::
  | To = Tlosk
  | To =  
  | Text = I like 1 and 6 the best, but would change "Quests" to "Related Quests". I think 1 would work best, because most entries are not updated, and only from 1 quest, so with 6 you would have these two little bits of info spread all the way across the page. But with 1 they are closer together. --[[User:An Adventurer|An Adventurer]] 17:19, 2 February 2009 (CST)
  | Text = Any registered user with Wikia would be able to login to edit our wiki, as we could theirs. All of our admins will still be able to [http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:Administrators%27_how-to_guide#How_do_I_block_a_troublemaker.3F block any user from our wiki], also Wikia staff can put in place a global block for users that are vandalizing/spamming more than one wiki.
}}
{{Post
| Indent = :::
| Text = I added a 7th example to [[Sandbox Two]] that combines 1 and 6, the full width box for uniformity and left justification for the text (couldn't figure that out before) and have a more typical text (1 quest and no updates) for comparison.


If there's one variable with an arbitrary number of parameters you can have the formatting in the template, but with more than one it isn't practical so the bracketing will need to be done manually the same as is done for trophies with creatures. For example:
Looking through the [[:Special:BlockList]] for several of the larger wikis they don't have large numbers of blocks per month so it doesn't seem that vandalism/spamming is much of an issue.  


<pre>
Also on a related side note, we didn't move our old chat forums during the last hosting relocation because of the spam problems and server overhead concerns, but we can have a true forum again if we wish after the move. --{{User:Tlosk/SigR}} 20:02, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
{{Intro
| Patch Introduced = [[Sins of the Fathers]]
| Related Quests = [[Hidden Presents]], [[Pets]]
| Updated = [[Shifting Tactics]], [[Ancient Enemies]]
}}
</pre>
--[[User:Tlosk|Tlosk]] 03:15, 3 February 2009 (CST)
}}
{{Post
| Indent = ::::
| To = Tlosk
| Text = 7 looks very nice. It has my approval to be the basis for the intro template. --[[User:An Adventurer|An Adventurer]] 09:44, 3 February 2009 (CST)
}}
{{Post
| Indent = ::::
| To = Tlosk
| Text = Yes, I like 7 as well.  I actually enjoyed the Icons in #3, but they were too hard to read for someone unfamiliar with what they represent.  Lets go with 7 and move on, I assume we could always adjust them in the future if we wanted to. --[[User:Atarax|Atarax]] 10:21, 3 February 2009 (CST)
}}
}}
=== Leveling Guides ===
{{Post
{{Post
  | Indent = :
  | Indent = :
  | To = An Adventurer, Tlosk
  | To =  
  | Text = I'm thinking it may be a good idea to create an ''extended'', ''large'', or ''vertical'' version of the intro template fragment for articles that contain a lot of quest references. For example I was looking at the [[Empowered Armor of Perfect Light Sets]] article that An Adventurer is working on, and honestly, the intro template does not work well here.  There are so many "related" quests, that the top of the page is completely smashed, even on 1024x768.  It would look decent for pages like this if the ''Related Quests'' portion was on its own line below the ''Introduced'' and ''Updated'' lines. Any thoughts on this? --[[User:Atarax|Atarax]] 14:02, 4 February 2009 (CST)
  | Text = See [[Talk:Leveling Guide]] --[[User:An Adventurer|An Adventurer]] 17:53, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
}}
{{Post
| Indent = ::
| To = Atarax
| Text = I think that the Empowereed Armor of Perfect Light will be a rare exception. First, it is really two sets combined in one page. Since they were introduced at different patches I had to show that. And three of the quest names and one of the patch names happens to be very long.<br><br>The intro template is going to be used on creatures, NPCs, and all types of items. For the majority of these entries, there will only be "introduced in" and "related quest" links. A few will have updates, and fewer will have multiple quests. I don't think we need to modify the template to work with these more rare occurrences. I'll just edit the PL armor page with shortened link names, or maybe make a Quiddity Seed Quest disambiguation page similar to the burun kings page. --[[User:An Adventurer|An Adventurer]] 14:17, 4 February 2009 (CST)
}}
{{Post
| Indent = :::
| To = An Adventurer
| Text = Works for me. /signed --[[User:Atarax|Atarax]] 14:42, 4 February 2009 (CST)
}}
{{Post
| Indent = ::::
| Text = I hadn't mentioned this, but I also had in the back of my head to have a section either on the template's page itself or on its talk page for a box of nontemplate code, that is all the code you'd use to produce the page without using any templates, this would allow you to manually tweak things for those exception pages where you want to deviate from the template. (Also it would help serve as a reference as the template code is just about unintelligible the first time you look at it.) --[[User:Tlosk|Tlosk]] 16:27, 4 February 2009 (CST)
}}
}}
== Archived Forum Posts ==
See [[Talk:Forum]]


[[Category:Help]]
[[Category:Help]]

Latest revision as of 12:15, 30 July 2012

Related topics: Recent Changes, {{Post}}

NOTE: This is the location of our old Forum and this page has been locked. All content has been moved to our new threads based Forum. Please go there to make new posts.

The Forum is a central location for discussions that would be of general interest to other contributors. This also includes putting a link here to very specific discussions that are carried out on the talk pages of articles. The general idea is having one place to check for recent contributor discussions. The wiki is growing and there are now many contributors helping cover more topics than ever. The forum should help avoid missing reading and participating in discussions about standards and practices as the wiki continues to evolve.


If there is a particular contributor that you want to reply to a concern, post a link to the Forum or the article's Talk page on his or her user page (so he or she will get a New Messages highlight when they log in/post again). Two or three-way discussions can be hard to follow when they span more than a single page. Also, if you add this page as a Watched Page it will show as bold in the Recent Changes list. If your post will only be of interest to a single person, feel free to post on just that user's talk page. Discussions will be organized by month, though they may continue past the month they were started and will be archived on the talk page for this article after two months. 

{{Post
 | Indent = :
 | To = 
 | Text = 
}}

October 2009 Edit

Skins & home page design Edit

With the move to Wikia there are several Monaco skin colors along with the Monobook skin. I've done some editing to the MediaWiki:Monaco-toolbox and MediaWiki:Monaco-sidebar (may need to clear history and refresh to see them). With these changes, the Monaco skin has pretty much all the same links, menus, and tools that were previously found on asheron.info's sidebar and drop down menu. This will hopefully help make the site easier for those not signed in, as Monaco is the default.

On the topic of skins - is it possible to change the default to Monobook, so the site would look more familiar to those not logged in? And if it is possible, do we want even want to make this change, or should we embrace and expand on the Monaco skin?

A related topic - the home page. I think that we should consider a serious overhaul of the layout. The major changes I would like to see would be to move AC News & Wiki News to somewhere on the homepage, where they would get much more attention. I'd also consider merging the two into 'news'. I also think we could make some major revisions to the whole topic section, especially since the monaco sidebar menu can cover much of it.

At the very least, the welcome and Getting Started sections should probably be edited or rewritten. And I think we could try changing the style of the boxes - from their current rounded edges to something more resembling our recent template changes.

--An Adventurer 17:37, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

Nice work with the menus on the sidebars.--Tlosk  talk  contr 22:47, September 30, 2009 (UTC)

See: User:An Adventurer/Sandbox for a more clear example of my idea for updating the home page.

--An Adventurer 18:02, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

I have added some more detail to my sandbox linked above. It's not by any means a final design though. I have designed this with the thought that by default, visitors will be in the new monaco skin and will thus be using the sidebar, which I added a lot to. And hopefully we can get the drop-down menu added back to the monobook skin, and that drop down menu can mirror the links and levels of the monaco sidebar menu.

I'd like to hear some people's thoughts on the proposed design. I greatly reduced the number of main topics displayed. Are there any topics I removed that you think absolutely need to be there? Are there any topics that were never listed but you thought should be there?

I left out links to current/previous/all patches from topics for now, mostly because I couldn't think of good icons to use. I think that there should definitely be a link to the current patch on the main page, but I am not sure we need the previous and all patches links there with them already contained on the sidebar menu.

I included Game Mechanics as a topic. My thought is that this page could be greatly expanded on, and that the current General Information page would be merged into it.

I left out the Leveling Guide link as a main topic, but I figured that it would be linked to on New Player Guide, Returning Player Guide, Game Mechanics, and Level Costs, all of which are linked to on the main page, so it didn't need it's own link.

I also cut out the whole welcome/getting started sections. I placed a short welcome blurb at the top with links to other pages, as seen on many wikis such as wikipedia. I figured that we could go into more detail on the Asheron's Call Community Wiki:Introduction page and if necessary, create a Getting Started page. And we could add more general information about the wiki at Asheron's Call Community Wiki:About.

--An Adventurer 21:50, September 27, 2009 (UTC)

Lot of great stuff there, I can't reply in detail yet but I wanted to make a quick post to comment on a few things. The dynamicpagelists are extremely resource intensive and so we won't be able to use them (it's possible to use them in a limited fashion, but it's not really worth it). It isn't possible to set monobook as the default, though I did specify the color scheme default so at least people won't have the dark scheme when they first come to the site. Also I'd suggest making a long term mockup that we can work on and improve over a few weeks and leave the main page as is until most people have made the transition and signed in at least once. We can put a link on the main page though to the mockup to invite broader feedback and suggestions. The issue with the drop downs in monobook is an extension that's installed that messes up the formatting, I have a request in to remove it so anytime now I should be able to turn that back on (although it's still a little borked in IE, I need to figure out how to fix that also).--Tlosk  talk  contr 00:59, September 30, 2009 (UTC)

I've put together a page at Asheron's Call Community Wiki --An Adventurer 19:10, October 7, 2009 (UTC)

I have gone ahead an modified the main page.

  • I have left the topics the same until there is some discussion on them.


  • The whole welcome/getting started section was removed. It was mostly out of date, and hadn't really been modified since the wiki was created. The relevant info was moved to Asheron's Call Community Wiki:Introduction.


  • There is now a news section on the main page. I will work more to streamline our whole news section. The old links in the monobook skin sidebar should be removed, but I don't know how to edit that part.

--An Adventurer 16:44, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

Awesome work on everything, it looks great. I've been visiting some of the other wikis for ideas and am testing some things out but was trying to finish a map generator first and get some lingering issues from the move resolved. I was also thinking we could make a central hub for navigation where we basically link to almost everything so we can both expand on what is currently on the mainpage and also have a onestop place for people trying to find something (and also expose the nooks and crannies that can be difficult to find if you don't already know they exist). Also I will have a new wiki style forum set up in the next day or two and I'll backfill it with the existing content from here (I may possibly be able to restore our original forum content as well if I can get it running locally). --Tlosk  talk  contr 15:47, October 14, 2009 (UTC)

To: Tlosk
I have a suggestion for the central hub. The article Asheron's Call. Until I created the page for the home page updates, it didn't exist on the wiki. Right now it is just a stub, but I was thinking that it would be a great place to have links to lots of various content. Currently, Asheron's Call is linked to on the home page in the welcome statement, and it is on the monaco-sidebar with the alias Game Info (one of the first tier topics) so it will be easy to access. And it is probably the broadest topic article, since it can cover all things of AC1 and AC2. --An Adventurer 18:19, October 14, 2009 (UTC)

September 2009 Edit

Negative modifers Edit

Immortalbob pointed out that there are some weapons that have negative modifiers and they display as "+-10%" etc. I found a way to search for negative mods and found a few more bows and xbows that had a negative damage modifer and a bronze weapon with a negative melee mod. I decided to just add another parameter that would display its value and not format it at all. See Cragstone's Axe (Bronze Version) and Sublime Elari Wood Bow for examples. This won't be part of the standard page template as it would be confusing, rather I just wanted to let you know that it's available if needed.

So if you have a weapon that has a negative mod, delete the regular parameter/buffed parameter and replace it with the special one. The two parameters are "Defense" (instead of "Bonus to Defense") and "Modifer" (instead of "Damage Modifer"). And since there is no formatting applied, set it equal to however you want it to appear (including %, font color, bold, etc). --Tlosk  talk  contr 00:47, September 30, 2009 (UTC)

Wikia Test Server Live Edit

The Wikia test server is now available at http://asheron.wikia.com/wiki/ACC_Wiki_Home. Almost all extensions have been installed, however there are one or two that are still being worked on. This is a test installation meant to allow us examine what our wiki would be like on Wikia and to give us time to resolve any issues before a move takes place.

You will not be able to login using your ACC Wiki account, however if you have a Wikia account or create one, you can login using that (if you create an account with the same name, use the same email address you use here to avoid any issues when merging).

You can change the skin used to our current skin by going to your preferences after logging in and under the Skins section select Monobook and uncheck "Let the admins override my skin choice".

Please spend some time testing things out this weekend and record your feedback here: Talk:Wikia Migration. Later today I will have general information about new ways of doing things and differences at Wikia Migration. --Tlosk  talk  contr 13:09, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Returning Players Edit

With the upcoming 10th anniversary patch we will be seeing a lot of returning players. So I'd like to initiate a review of the pages most likely to be of use to these players and beef them up to be as complete as possible. I've listed below as many as I can think of (add any others you can think of to the list, and over the next few weeks if you have some free time take a look at a few to see what you can add. --Tlosk  talk  contr 00:07, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

I started a topic already for the leveling guide, you can see it at Forum#Leveling Guides, which links to Talk:Leveling Guide. Story arcs I can probably handle. The only issue there is that for each patch I have to look over all the quests, the TC rumors, and read the internet lore to make a good summary. And this takes some time. I've saved a bit of time by archiving A Brief History for Travelers, but this is not a permanent solution.

I want to beef up some of the main lore areas like the cultural pages. I've started this with Yalain, Falatacot, and Sho. I also want to redesign the List of Texts page with a cleaner look and if possible, its own wiki table template like the ones for vendors and such. I've started work on this on User:An Adventurer/Sandbox 4.

Two things to add to the list

  1. A full list of /commands, with each command being its own page. We have the blank Category:/command with 1 member. This should be populated.
  2. A complete and much more detailed description of the user interface, probably with multiple pages. I imagine a sliced image with each image section redirecting to the correct description page.

--An Adventurer 22:27, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

That would be really good. Having individual images line up together to make a seamless whole image would be tricky though, it might be easier to use an image map, where you specify the clickable parts of a single image, I'll get it installed. --Tlosk  talk  contr 11:37, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

I noticed that all of the YouTube video embeds are broken, this includes older content such as Turbine's BZ video, game intro, Alphus Lassel, etc etc. I'm assuming Wikia has a different format for embedding? Anyways, I plan on trying to compose an extensive list of non-grind ways of leveling your character, which I think will be a refreshing change to players who dread coming back to grind... as AC has done a great job in allowing players to level without camping dungeons now. Perhaps this could be a seperate section called "no grind" or something. I do think the current leveling guide could be better organized though it is a good start... I might brainstorm for that as well :). Oh, and as far as the sliced image deal goes, can't you just divide the image by "hot spots" and do it that way rather than splitting the image around?
--Connor the Craftmaster 24 September 2009

I'm going to be working a lot on the User Interface and other basic help items. I've put together a spliced image of the UI here: User:An Adventurer/Sandbox

--An Adventurer 17:51, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

Wiki Relocation Edit

Unfortunately continued growth and bandwidth/overhead demands are requiring we move to a new host again. Most of the larger gaming wikis have faced this same transition point in their history where the costs to operate become prohibitive and they have moved to the professional wiki hosting site Wikia.com. Wikia was founded by Jimmy Wales and Angela Beesley, Chairman Emeritus and Advisory Board chair respectively of the Wikimedia Foundation which is responsible for both Wikipedia and Mediawiki (the wiki software that we use to run this site).

I will try to list as openly as I can the pros and cons of this move below and we will only reach a final decision once everyone has had an opportunity to weigh in, this wiki was made by players of Asheron's Call for the benefit of other players and our primary goal is to ensure the long term availability of the hard work and countless hours of the many contributors. We recognize that the wiki's popularity rests firmly on how useful and broad the wiki has become because of their work.

valign=top
Pros Cons
  • Hosting would be provided free, meaning the longterm viability of the wiki would no longer be dependent on forces we may not be able to control. Time spent contributing to the wiki would not be in danger of being lost or unavailable.
  • Editorial control will remain with us, we will continue to decide what the wiki will be and what it won't be.
  • We would share the same host as the largest wikis for games like World of Warcraft, Guildwars, Diablo, Everquest II, Final Fantasy and nongame wikis like Lostpedia, Wookieepedia and others.
  • Mediawiki software upgrades, weekly backups, outages, etc are all handled by a full time team of engineers employed by Wikia and we would no longer be dependent on one or two people that aren't always available.
  • Wikia will not own the content, it will remain under the Creative Commons open license which means people are free to use submitted data on their own sites or build upon it as they see fit. Unlike other corporately owned fansites (as well as all private sites that I have personally contacted in the past) that severely restrict how information on their sites can be used, the wiki ethos is to make information as widely and as conveniently available as possible. Towards this end Wikia makes weekly data dumps that contain all the wiki's pages. This dump is readily downloadable. This was a goal we have always had ourselves but due to the complexity of remote administration and the size of the dumps it hasn't been practical for us to do. This also protects the data by allowing multiple copies across many people and locations, rather than in just one or two places as is now the case.
  • Wikia engineers have created lots of widgets and templates that can be used to improve the site so players can focus on game content instead of spending that time on wiki plumbing.
  • A lack of advertising is a common complaint by players that wish Turbine could devote more resources to game exposure. Because of our size we will benefit from visibility on Wikia which will mean Asheron's Call will gain visibility, which hopefully might get some players to return that otherwise wouldn't have.
  • While Wikia will have ads, because of the increased costs of running the wiki ads would almost certainly be required going forward no matter what we do. However there would be no guarantee they would cover our costs and we would also require players to take time to administrate this. Wikia on the other hand would handle all aspects of this on our behalf.
  • While the style/layout of the wiki as it currently exists can be maintained by adjusting personal preferences (using the monobook skin), it will not be the default skin. Users that do not change their skin preference or users that are not logged in will see pages that differ in appearance.
  • Usernames are wikia wide, not just specific to our wiki, as a result there is the possibility some users won't be able to use the exact same name after the move.
  • Ads will appear on most pages (the number of ads are reduced when logged in and on pages other than the main page). We will not have direct control over what ads appear, though there is a mechanism to report inappropriate ads.
  • Players will not be the final arbiter of what material remains on the wiki. Wikia reserves the right to remove information for any reason. However the history of the other large gaming wikis shows that this has little to no real world impact.
  • Wikia is a for profit entity, which means that if ad revenue is greater than the costs to host the wiki, those profits go to Wikia shareholders. Many popular services operate in the same way, like Google Search, Gmail, IGN, Warcry CoD, Hulu, Broadcast Television and Radio, etc. The ads allow the companies to offer services for free to the endusers.
  • With the move to Wikia there is the potential for a fork (the creation of another wiki using the same base material but with each wiki then taking their own path with their own set of contributors). Technically this is possible already, however the potential increases if there are people that are unhappy with the move.


We would like to allow time for any of our contributors or readers who might have concerns to be able to voice them now so they can be addressed to their satisfaction before a move is made. --Tlosk  talk  contr 23:56, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

We've been very fortunate to have our current free hosting (Thanks Mav!), but I don't think we're going to find a better solution than Wikia. Wikia provides exactly what we need, and since they host other gaming wikis with much larger communities, we shouldn't have to worry about capacity.

I understand that advertising is necessary, but blinking, flashing, animated advertisements are so distracting that I either block them, or don't visit those sites anymore. I see there is one such ad on the main page of the lotro wiki, though the other four ads aren't a problem.

It's reassuring that they do make site content available for download -- so much effort has been put into the wiki already that I'd hate to see it lost.

I already have an account at Wikia. If we moved there, can my ACC Wiki account/username/contributions be merged/associated with my existing Wikia account?

By the way, it might be worth starting a thread on the Turbine forums, to hear what people there think. --Widgeon 09:45, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

If there are two accounts with the same name, then email addresses are compared. If they match, that name is set as one account. If there are two accounts and the email addresses don't match, then a prefix would be added to the new (merging) account. If you have accounts of the same name on ACCWiki and on Wikia, make sure your email address is the same on both accounts. To do this, go to your preferences page, make sure the "email" field is correct, and authenticate your email by clicking the link in the email sent to you. If you have accounts of different names on ACCWiki and Wikia, and you would like them merged, there will be a talk page where you can request they be merged into a single account. (If the emails don't match and someone ends up with a prefixed name, it will be possible to merge them after the fact after verifying both accounts belong to the same person, or a name change to a nonprefixed, unique name if desired if you don't own the wikia account of the same name). --Tlosk  talk  contr 20:02, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, that answers my question. I've updated my email address, and that's all I should need to do. --Widgeon 22:27, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

I'd never thought of the fact that wikia advertises their other wikis. That is a real nice benefit. However, on the point about user names- if names are universal, that means anyone from any wikia wiki can edit any other wiki? That sounds like it has the potential for harassment. Has this ever been an issue? Also, you said we remain in editorial control. Do we still keep the ability to ban/block bad users, or is that something wikia does? --An Adventurer 16:19, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Any registered user with Wikia would be able to login to edit our wiki, as we could theirs. All of our admins will still be able to block any user from our wiki, also Wikia staff can put in place a global block for users that are vandalizing/spamming more than one wiki.

Looking through the Special:BlockList for several of the larger wikis they don't have large numbers of blocks per month so it doesn't seem that vandalism/spamming is much of an issue.

Also on a related side note, we didn't move our old chat forums during the last hosting relocation because of the spam problems and server overhead concerns, but we can have a true forum again if we wish after the move. --Tlosk  talk  contr 20:02, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Leveling Guides Edit

See Talk:Leveling Guide --An Adventurer 17:53, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Archived Forum Posts Edit

See Talk:Forum

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